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Author Topic: Feedback/Discussion Topic  (Read 62458 times)

DavoX

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Feedback/Discussion Topic
« on: October 06, 2007, 12:47:39 PM »
I remember playing this when It was very early in development, I will check it out later :)

MOD EDIT: Splitting the feedback from the old topic into a new one. I want to keep the original topic for updates on new version releases or for going over various aspects of the game as I choose to reveal them [like storylines, character info, etc]. I hope no one minds this. >.>
« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 02:48:26 AM by Lord Misfit »
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Lord Misfit

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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2007, 04:15:56 PM »
http://www.zxdware.net/NR/ - Version 4.85.10062007 is up. :P

Major updates include:

SHOPS. As seen in the above screenshot, shops are now possible. However you have to spawn a "DEALER" actor and 'use' him to open up and use the default shop. The keys for messing around in the shop will be shown at the bottom of the screen like they are in the Character/Item/System menu.

"Auto-Use Portable Medikit When Injured" option in the system menu. Is set to OFF by default, so enable this if you think you'll be so engrossed in fighting that you'll forget to manually use the medikit, or leave it off for a challenge.

New actors: AIRBUBBLE and AIRBUBBLEGENERATOR. AIRBUBBLE is similar to WATERBUBBLE, except you can collect them to prolong your lungs or Scuba Gear when you get close to them. All WATERBUBBLEMAKERs will become AIRBUBBLEGENERATORs in the classic levels, so E3L1 and several other maps will enable use of them without having to make a test map for them.

Keypads, Handscanners and the Custom-Keyscanners will now activate/deactivate forcefields much like other normal switches do.

Custom-Keyscanners of the same lotag now sync globally over a whole level instead of just syncing the closest unused keyscanner with the same lotag, but you must use lotags from 10001 to 10031 for them to sync perfectly when activated.

Duke, Higa, Cybanis and ESSence now have enemy-kill dialouge[although the latter two don't yet have sounds to go along with them :P] that will show up in the userquote section[where multiplayer messages normally show up].

IMPORTANT: The fall-damage system has been completely redone. You'll take damage in HP% once again as opposed to losing at most just 8 to 61 points. However these changes also include that now you must fall nearly twice as far for instant death to occur.

Various sound-related things changed, fixed and altered. You'll notice them in the game when you play I'm sure. :P

(OH YES, and the main page is updated with pictures of all the listed items, and more items are listed as well as pictures of the Red and Blue Riot Tanks and other such things. Another demo movie will be added to the page very soon as well.)
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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2007, 06:04:14 PM »
Seems nice, maybe I'll check it out sometime, if I ever get around to it. Not too keen on reading that huge instructions page though so I guess I'll just have to figure out while playing ;)
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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2007, 04:08:41 AM »
Would you mind changing the format of your documentation a little bit, so it doesn't look so much like my DNWMD doc?  I have no problem with the fact that you were using it as a template, but if you could just change the font colors and background colors, it would be enough to give yours a distinct look.

You've added a TON of stuff to that mod of yours.  At one time it was a DNWMD knock-off, even using a lot of my code, but now NR has really grown into something original of its own, which is nice to see.  Keep up the good work.
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Lord Misfit

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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2007, 08:36:45 AM »
About the website, I'll see what I can think of for some changes in the colors. I can't promise there will be an immediate change in all of the colors though. >.>

EDIT: I updated the page with a new color-scheme now. :P
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 10:36:21 AM by Lord Misfit »
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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 03:55:08 AM »
I'm thinking about finally trying this, partly because I don't want to be a hypocrite and expect other people to play my mod when I won't play theirs  ^_^ ....

Anyway, looking at your documentation is a bit daunting.  It seems like there's a lot of things the player needs to remember, regarding what all the items do.  But this in particular bothered me:

Quote
To open the menu system, hit the "[" key. To exit the menu/cancel a selection, hit "[" again. To cycle through submenus[Characters, Items, System, etc], "Home" goes up, and "End" goes down. The "]" key will shift your current submenu one page. "Spacebar" will perform/select an action, such as choosing a character or item to use. The Up, Down, Left and Right arrows move your cursor around within the current menu[Left and Right have no use in the system submenu though].

You should be using the definegamefuncname command to give special keys appropriate names.  And you can't really know that it is the "[" key, can you?  I mean, it depends on the player's key assignments.  I don't want to have to fish around in the documentation to find out which keys do what.  Also, if you don't have one already, you should have an in-game help screen (maybe with multiple pages, to cover all the items).

I'm considering adding a tutorial system to DNWMD, where it will actually stop the game and display a message the first time that certain things happen (e.g. the first time a monster drops a soul coin).
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Lord Misfit

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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 04:44:03 AM »
I don't use definegamefuncname much for keys that have multiple uses. Gliding Mode and the Main Menu are the only one used, because the keys have only one main use. However Home/End and those other keys also do other functions outside of the menus.

As for in-game help, you might have seen me complain/mention on the 3DR Duke forums about how there's no if-style condition for key-bindings. I would rather something like that be available before I make something like the ingame help screen. To be honest, I don't want it to be a single static help screen tile[no offense to yours], since I'd rather it be able to update itself as bindings change.

As for a tutorial, I do have plans for one, but unlike yours, it'll likely be a full-blown tutorial level done in a strange style from most other tutorial levels.

There's just a lot of stuff I have to worry about and that puts some of the things you mentioned on the lower end of the hierachy of attention right now. I've found up to maybe 4-5 potential voice actors, and getting to know them and understand their qualities is gonna be taking some of my time for this in the future, as well as my new EXP-to-all-members system I'm starting work on.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 06:14:40 AM by Lord Misfit »
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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2007, 01:35:19 PM »
I installed it.  I played it a little bit.  Here are my first impressions...

The sound effects are awesome, although it reminds me a bit of a casino.  With all of the colorful power up items lying around, and the sound effects and the overall atmosphere, it feels a lot like one of those Japanese 2D shooters from the 90's where there is just total chaos but you know you're kicking ass because the bad guys are dying and you're not, and you can hear all those bonus-y sounds.  At it's core, then, I think this game can be really fun.  The visual style of the powerups and the audio style of the sounds (yes I know they are all ripped but that's okay it's a mod) is very appealing.

Now, there are lots of things going wrong, too, and I'm going to mention a few of them.  First, having all the stats displayed where they are is just horrible.  I'm sorry, but it is.  Even the "less" version is still horrible, because of where they are on the screen.  There is a reason that HUD information is normally at the edges of the screen.  For a while, I didn't even know where the health, ammo etc. amounts were displayed, because there is just this big mess of numbers, and there is nothing to make any of them stand out.  So, the irony is, even though you have the information in the just about the most obnoxious place possible, it's still hard to see.  I don't have any problem with the picture of the monster showing up over its head when you shoot it, with some information about it.  That's pretty cool.

Second, key commands are displayed as the literal keys on the keyboard.  So it tells me that "[" does something, and "PageUp" does something, etc.  But apparently those are based on the default key setup, which I don't use, so as a result I have no idea what keys to assign to what or what they do (I did assign the ones that you named in the keyboard setup menu, but there were several others that left me guessing).  Until you get that EDuke32 update needed to fix this properly, I would suggest using the actual game function names (e.g. "press LOOK LEFT to do thus-and-so").  Apparently, there is no way to cycle through the regular inventory items; all you can do is use them directly with the key assigned to that specific item (and once again, the keys displayed are for the defaults).  This confused me.

In general, I had a tough time figuring out what was going on with the menus and special items and character switching.  I switched characters a few times, and I noticed that they had different jumping heights and speeds and hit points, and I presume they differ in some other ways (like which weapons they have).  Okay, but, I don't understand why we need all these different characters to get through what appear to be the same maps that we are familiar with.  Are you really going to take advantage of different abilities for different characters?  Also, as a casual player, I'm not motivated to invest time in figuring out what the hell is going on or what character I should be using.

The bottom line:  Make it more user friendly.  I know that DNWMD needs some work in this area as well, but NR is ten times worse.  Ideally, a game shouldn't require the player to look at a manual at all.  All the information should be in-game, and easily digestible.
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Lord Misfit

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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2007, 03:29:35 PM »
FINALLY, some true critique, even if there's a lot of downs in it... This is the kinda thing I'd like to get often for my stories online, but I digress. :D

Time to break this apart here, I'll start with the things you mentioned as downsides. >.>

First off, the stat displays. Yes, I am very aware people complain a lot about it, and saying that, you're probably wondering why I haven't tried to fix/improve it yet, right? A lot of it is that I'm so focused on other things I feel to be more important[just for reference, a new feature in progress takes precedence over bug fixes for me, so I tend to most catch bugs during testing of newer features]. I do admit that the displays for stats need an overhaul, but the other problem is that I'm a bit confused how to compress some of the stats down to the lower part of the screen without totally making it [in my opinion] even more confusing for people. Maybe, just maybe the next version with have some changes to the displays and all that. I'll have to think a lot on how to move things to the bottom of the screen, although the inventory items/key icons will not be changing positions. I might put the powerup/artifacts on the left edge of the screen instead.

Second [and third?], the in-game help and the manual. Let me start off though with some honesty: I believe all new people to a game SHOULD read the manual supplied with it AT LEAST ONCE(I know I did for all new games I play), and if an update to it happens to look over it again[and that's why I color-code all new updates in the manual with a Teal color, so the people know what's added/changed]. The reason the manual has so much stuff is because I believe in "Knowledge is Power". Now there are things in that manual you don't have to look at to have fun in the game. You don't have to look over the items or enemies, or the tips section at the end and still have plenty of fun, but I feel it's common courtesy to have the stuff in there for those who do feel they need to know stuff in the game. I'm not demanding that anyone read the manual itself. It's all up to their choice.

Now to the in-game help, I do admit, I do need to make an in-game help of some kind at some point. Again though, it's a matter of my personal priorities. In-game mechanical programming changes tend to come first over the lesser things like help-files and bug-fixes. For every new version of the game I release, I try to have one 'Central' feature to add on my list, and at least two "Secondary" features, along with many really smaller ones. For example, I'll say right now that ATM-machine support is the Central feature I'm gonna try to get in this upcoming version[Shops were the central feature of 4.85], while all-party-EXP-distribution and emulation of the classic-game's damagesectors[for incorporating special effects I can't do with the hardcoded versions] are the secondary features. I normally fix bugs, rearrange things or add new sounds, etc, after that stuff is done or in the case a critical bug is found by me or other playtesters. However, I don't like referring to the command names in my help files. The reason I do feel putting the actual keys for changing things is for lack of display space and because I tend to be bloody specific as crap when I describe how to do things. "Press INVENTORY_LEFT to open menu" I admit is easier to understand, but it also takes more space to display, and not all people do know the default keys off hand, and sadly, I have met some people so lazy they don't want to go to the keyboard toggle menu to find out what keys go to a specific action. It could just be the people I know though. I know it's not a great reason, but I'll have to see what I can do on this as well. I'm not promising an immediate change though.

Also, I'm sorry to say this, but the inventory left/inventory right keys are basically all but gone most of the time. You're just gonna have to get used to it, sorry but that's how it is, and displaying the word "STEROIDS key" next to the item will only clutter up a problem you're complaining about[displays] even more. This is why I really hope for the if-conditions for bindings to come in soon. Obviously I will not deny display being a problem here, but not all of it is as simple to fix as some people think.

Three [or four?], probably the most important of the things: First off, I'm guessing the menu navigation is more connected again to the fact I mention specific keys instead of command-names, and that's already been addressed. However now comes the major thing: the characters and all that:

First off I think I need to stress something important to not just you, but to anyone who might make the following mistake to assume NR is a 'cosmetic' modification. A cosmetic modification is something I would consider to be more like DNWMD, or if you want a mod for Doom, AEons of Death by DeathBringerThanatos. A see these cosmetic modifications as things that intend to mostly change just programming and add features, usually intending to expand upon existing levels, rather they are the original, official levels, or usermaps/WADs made by people prior to the mod's release. I'm not saying these mods are bad, and I understand NR's first impression is of this very thing and people think it's just a 'cosmetic mod', but that's only CURRENTLY.

The fact is, I'm a lone-shark right now. I'm the ONLY person truly programming the game[but you guys in your own ways HAVE helped me, like DeeperThought, Reaper_Man, Dr. Kylstian, MBlackwell, TerminX, etc], but the lion's share of the mod has been my own work, blood, sweat, anger and even some tears. But I can only work on so many aspects of the mod at one time, and right now, programming is the main thing happening, and getting voices and graphics for the characters would be a close second, but that's something I can do little to make a dent in even if I tried. I have no mic right now, and even with the best voice acting in the world, I'd never be able to voice every character in the game, playable or NPC alike, and my graphical skills with a mouse suck, I have no tablet or scanner, and very subpar real-artistic skills. Programming and writing are my strong points.

Enough of that rambling on though. The point is, there WILL be maps for this mod, maps that are specifically meant for this mod and this mod only, and an extremely large storyline well beyond the scope of the original Duke Nukem Universe[minus potentially DNF's hopefully-future-storyline], but as I said, I can only focus on so many things at once. The other reason is that I don't want to get too heavily into mapping the levels until most of the planned features for the game are done. I absolutely loathe it when I make a map, thinking I have it done, but remember a necessary feature I have to add to the programming that forces me to most redo at least one map or more just because of the change. I'd rather do the maps as well as I can the first time, and that requires most of the programming to be completed first.

That brings me to the characters aspect: Yes, all of those characters in some way or another are[or will be] necessary to the game's storyline. And yes, they have many 'passive'[non-weapon] abilities right now that will make then better, perferred, or even downright necessary in certain places in the maps that will be made for the mod itself. I would hope with what people have seen me do for this, they haven't just assumed immediately this mod is [again as I will call it] a cosmetic one. But trust me, all of these characters are there because they are important to the future-storyline of this game and the maps that will eventually come out for it. I didn't put them in there just for the heck of it, or just to 'test' such a feature out just to see if I could do it. If I had added the characters merely for a feature in something like a real cosmetic mod, there'd be far less of them [4, MAYBE 5, including Duke]. I don't really think 14 characters is a realistic number in a mod made to merely test your programming skills. I could be wrong though, I guess, but that's how I see it.

(As a note in case you didn't know, right now until an official release draws close enough, the characters you start with when you load a new usermap or episode are chosen at random[to make transversing existing levels more exciting]. I don't plan on this mod merely extending upon the original levels, but I won't deny it makes the original maps and other earlier-made user maps a lot more interesting and fun, but again, that's not my aim with this mod, it's just a side-effect right now.)

Anyways, I think I've covered everything for this reply. Again, DeeperThought, thank you for the critique. None of these are personal to you or anyone else, but I had to make sure people knew what I was thinking when I made this. I'll be honest you all of you here: 10 years ago, I first had the idea for this mod, I was 13 years old then, and my programming knowledge was about non-existant. EDuke for the most part hadn't even existed in the Matt Saettler incarnation yet. The first two versions/attempts at NR plain out sucked and were an embarrasment in my mind. I tried a third time as the Saettler incarnation of EDuke began to exist, but since it was so slow in progress and my skills were still next to crap, I only made maps for NR. However those got lost when the hard-drive they were on died completely.

I gave up on the mod for 4-6 years(I did consider making it into a fanfiction though, but never did) and worked in Doom modding, which ended up with me creating another blemish of a game that I won't talk about here since this topic has nothing to do with Doom. I recently gave up on that project since people hated it and only one real fan really seemed to have any interest in it[and I personally began to see it for the suckfest it was]. After that, I just hovered around between the Doom and Duke communitiues until about 13-14 months ago when I was introduced to Duke Nukem: Weapons of Mass Destruction by DeeperThought. I'm not sure how many people remembered the version where it displayed the enemy's health in numeric form by having you point your crosshair at it, but that feature specfically made me want to know how the crap to do it, and from there, I started trying to emulate and recreate an effect like it, and I slowly began to realize I was adding things I never could with the older NRs, and it lead to this.

One final note: even now, I will admit there are things about this mod I still see as slight pipedreams, but thanks to the EDuke community, I have learned things like multiple-characters-in-a-group WEREN'T a pipedream, and a lot of the stuff I thought impossible to do in 1997-2001 weren't as impossible as I thought, and my EDuke32 skills exploded into use after having no ability to use the Saettler version during it's era.

To all of you, I thank you greatly, despite the criticism I do get on the annoying, littler aspects of the mod. Man, it took me nearly 90 minutes to type this SOB of a message. I do hope some of you did read all of it, but I expect not all people will be patient enough to. That's okay though, I guess. :P
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 03:46:02 PM by Lord Misfit »
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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2007, 10:08:38 PM »

First off, the stat displays. Yes, I am very aware people complain a lot about it, and saying that, you're probably wondering why I haven't tried to fix/improve it yet, right? A lot of it is that I'm so focused on other things I feel to be more important[just for reference, a new feature in progress takes precedence over bug fixes for me, so I tend to most catch bugs during testing of newer features]. I do admit that the displays for stats need an overhaul, but the other problem is that I'm a bit confused how to compress some of the stats down to the lower part of the screen without totally making it [in my opinion] even more confusing for people.

It's important because it makes people not want to play the game.  If that's a low priority for you, then fine, but in that case why bother releasing it yet?

As for where to put the stats... Some of them are just things like health and ammo counts, which were removed from the bottom of the screen.  I don't understand why it was important to remove them.  As for the NR specific stats, couldn't they be put on their own screen instead of being in the HUD?  I mean, why should the player have to see them all the time?  I am suggesting that you make a character sheet that the player can look at whenever he wants, and you can pack it with tons of information.  Then bind a key to it so the player can bring it up directly without going through a menu.

By the way, it's not a good idea to add new features without fixing bugs in existing features.

Second [and third?], the in-game help and the manual. Let me start off though with some honesty: I believe all new people to a game SHOULD read the manual supplied with it AT LEAST ONCE(I know I did for all new games I play)

Whether it's reasonable to expect people to read a manual depends on the type of game.  But whether they should or not, the fact is that most people won't.  It's easier to understand instructions when you're actually in the game and you get direct feedback, so in-game help is best.


Quote
First off I think I need to stress something important to not just you, but to anyone who might make the following mistake to assume NR is a 'cosmetic' modification. A cosmetic modification is something I would consider to be more like DNWMD, or if you want a mod for Doom, AEons of Death by DeathBringerThanatos. A see these cosmetic modifications as things that intend to mostly change just programming and add features, usually intending to expand upon existing levels, rather they are the original, official levels, or usermaps/WADs made by people prior to the mod's release. I'm not saying these mods are bad, and I understand NR's first impression is of this very thing and people think it's just a 'cosmetic mod', but that's only CURRENTLY.

I don't think that NR is a cosmetic modification.  Neither is DNWMD.  A cosmetic modification would be something like the HRP with the SD_Duke mod (visual changes but the gameplay stays the same).
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 12:30:58 AM by DeeperThought »
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DavoX

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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2007, 11:48:34 PM »
 I think he was referring to his mod, not the game itself (Duke 3d)
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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2007, 12:08:44 AM »
I think he was referring to his mod, not the game itself (Duke 3d)

I know what he was referring to, I'm not an idiot.
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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2007, 12:15:33 AM »
I think he was referring to his mod, not the game itself (Duke 3d)

I know what he was referring to, I'm not an idiot.

I'm talking about your last quote to him. He didn't say that he was the only coder for duke3d, but for his mod.
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Trooper Dan

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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2007, 12:32:16 AM »
I think he was referring to his mod, not the game itself (Duke 3d)

I know what he was referring to, I'm not an idiot.

I'm talking about your last quote to him. He didn't say that he was the only coder for duke3d, but for his mod.

OK, so I AM an idiot  :/  Thanks for pointing that out so I could fix it.  I got the wrong impression because he said that right after talking about how other mods were "cosmetic".
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Naferia's Reign Introduction Topic (Version: 4.85.10062007, 10/06/07)
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2007, 03:50:26 AM »
It's important because it makes people not want to play the game.  If that's a low priority for you, then fine, but in that case why bother releasing it yet?

I know it's gonna sound like I'm insuiating an obvious answer, but I'm showing it to people for playtesting purposes, like for getting critique like this. As I said in the above post, I'm the only one programming it aside from the occasional help you guys give me, and I'm sure you can understand that usually the one programming a game of theirs usually has a set way of playtesting their own product that might cause them to not consider certain ways another person might play it, that's why I release it as a public beta[as moddb.com would put it].

And trust me, there are features and stuff I do wonder if I should tell people about right away or not, because some of them might become linked to future spoilers for the game's plot and all. But back to the playtesting a second, I do have other people I know who thanks to my releasing the game as a public beta have spotted critical bugs by doing things I'd never consider too often. For example, during 75% of the earlier programming phase of NR, I barely used the Shrinker because it's not really part of my playing style, so people using the shrinker with the mod would find certain bugs and alert me and such.

I don't intend for this to pass off as a "duh, isn't it obvious" attitude with this answer, but a honest answer to the question you asked. Like I said before, I can't do all of the work for this mod even if I wanted to due to all the different ways and styles that people use when they play games like these. And I'll admit something to you guys, I don't have a great computer due to lack of funding. I barely have over a 1ghtz in total processor power on this computer, and I haven't played many FPS games that have been out in the last 4 years, so I program games more like I'm back in the Doom/BUILD engine era and not the Doom3/Quake4 engine era. >.>

As for where to put the stats... Some of them are just things like health and ammo counts, which were removed from the bottom of the screen.  I don't understand why it was important to remove them.  As for the NR specific stats, couldn't they be put on their own screen instead of being in the HUD?  I mean, why should the player have to see them all the time?  I am suggesting that you make a character sheet that the player can look at whenever he wants, and you can pack it with tons of information.  Then bind a key to it so the player can bring it up directly without going through a menu.

Well, I guess I can mention this: I have been considering an in-menu option where you can scan an very detailed status report on a character by choosing them out of the menu[it would be a submenu where you cycle through each character's status with a key or so. However, I can't say I really wish to link this to a completely new button outside of the menu because you might remember that long ago, I had no menu-programming knowledge and therefore all of my special toggles got taken up on various 'extra' keys, and I really don't think I wanna go back down that path too much and fall into that problem again. I do remember how much people were happy when the System Menu was completed so all those toggles where in one simple place to set.

By the way, it's not a good idea to add new features without fixing bugs in existing features.

Alright, maybe I was a little quick to say they're low priority, but they're closer to medium priority. What I mean is, if I'm playing testing and I spot a bug in the game by chance that I know shouldn't be there, I will usually try to fix it then and there[i.e. this morning, I discovered enemies can still kill invulnerable enemies of a different species with projectiles, when they shouldn't be able to, and then promptly went and fixed that]. But usually I don't go flat out looking for bugs immediately when I start work for the next version. I usually go to a secondary feature or try some work at the primary feature planned for that version, before actively searching for any bugs[usually by extensively playing through the game's levels over and over, it does some good for me :D]. And I'll also admit, I hate leaving bugs unattended or half-fixed due to lack of knowledge, and it grates on me a little when it seems I can't fix something for a while, so I don't completely disregard bugs or anything. I'm sorry if I wasn't fully clear. I probably should've said this last night, but I was also in a bit of a rush when I was writing my post last night.

Whether it's reasonable to expect people to read a manual depends on the type of game.  But whether they should or not, the fact is that most people won't.  It's easier to understand instructions when you're actually in the game and you get direct feedback, so in-game help is best.

I guess, again, this could do with me not having too many newer games of the last 4-6 years, therefore I don't apparently possess completely accurate knowledge of people's requirements today for a manual or in-game help as much as they do. Again, I'm used to the Doom engine/BUILD engine/Quake1-2 era games. The only game I have where there's really any tutorial or in game help in an interactive sense is Heretic II, which is dated back to to the late 90s. Quake2 might have the occasional mention of tips, but it wasn't on a large scale as I recall. >.>

Again though, I will admit there are things about games of the Doom/BUILD era I do think could have been improved on, like storyline detail, and that was one of the reasons I came up with NR in the first place 10 years ago.

I don't think that NR is a cosmetic modification.  Neither is DNWMD.  A cosmetic modification would be something like the HRP with the SD_Duke mod (visual changes but the gameplay stays the same).

Yeah, I might have used the wrong term when I said cosmetic. Again, I was in a bit of a rush when I said that name. I actually don't use SD_Duke[outside of DNWMD] and I don't use the HRP too often, so I never thought to see those as cosmetic modifications, but yes, I think I should rename the term I was using. I just can't really come up with a name right now. >.>

And, again I wasn't implying AEoD, DNWMD or those types of games are bad, it's just that DNWMD gives the impression that the game's fun and flair comes from transversing what are usually the classic levels and usermap-based episodes with a newer system that includes finding soul coins, buying special ammo, having a shorter, but double jump and other changes[I'm typing this quickly, please forgive my shortened list of your features ;)]. AEoD is a modification for ZDoom that basically replaces all enemies in the game with randomized 'class' spawners that spawn 1 of about 8-9 monsters per monster-class. It also does the same thing for replacing the weapons with weapon randomizers for that class of weapons too, thus giving the original levels or usermade WAD files a new gaming experience. However the main thing I connected with DNWMD and AEoD is that the creator of the mod is focused a lot on the programming and gameplaying experience, more than he/she would be the mapping aspect. I don't mind this at all, as I said, it's just I know personally that I don't plan for NR to end up like that where it's just enhancing the programming and gameplay, but I actually do intend to make maps and a storyline in the future for it.

Man, I hate it when I say something later perceived as arrogant or "know-it-all", it just comes back to bite me in the butt later. Remember kids, "arrogance is like drinking poison"! >.>


Alright, again I made my post last night with a time constraint, so I kinda forgot to thank you for the positive feedback you gave me on the game and completely forgot to address that, so I'll try to now. Actually, there wasn't that much to reply to, to be honest. Crap, I can't really think of anything specfic to reply to you about on the good points you mentioned. I don't mean to focus so much on your critique, but as I said before, it's extremely rare I get REAL critique[without crap like "this game sucks, hurhurhur"] along the lines of what you gave me last night for ANYTHING I make, game or story-related, so I tend to be more interested in addressing that. But, I still do thank you for still saying some good things about the mod. :)



Of course, going back to general speaking to everyone reading about the direct features and stuff for the game, in the next version, EXP awards will now be distributed to all members of your time, but the EXP will now be divided among the number of people, and all inactive characters only get a percentage of the EXP aware[from 30% to 70% depending on the difficulty level chosen]. Also, as mentioned above, I fixed a bug concerning monsters being able to damage/kill invulnerable monsters of a different species from them. It actually doesn't happen too often for me in my playthroughs, but I did get hardrock evidence of it, so I went and fixed it. :P

I'll probably try what I can to improve the display woes DT was talking about[at last! :P] when I wake up and aren't so tired here. >.>
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 05:40:06 AM by Lord Misfit »
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