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Author Topic: Wanting to map again  (Read 30098 times)

Fernito

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Wanting to map again
« on: June 04, 2012, 10:30:50 PM »
Hey guys,

After not mapping anything for Duke 3D in years, I've been feeling like mapping something cool since some days. Since I've been off the scene for a long time, I want to ask you: what do I need in order to be able to map like the gods? I mean, what version of Mapster/EDuke32 should I use (as some times the latest isn't the most stable)?

Also, I'm very interested on trying the new RoR feature. Do the newer Mapster32 versions support it 'from factory', or must I install some kind of add-on?

And please, if everything I'm asking has been already answered somewhere else, I'd be very grateful if you provide me the link.

Thanks in advance, guys!

PS: a link to a tutorial for RoR mapping would be nice too :D
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MSandt

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 11:10:36 PM »
You could just download the latest stable version. RoR doesn't require anything beside Mapster32 but be aware that by using it you're forcing the player to run the game either in the classic or Polymer mode.

MickyC wrote a TROR guide but I don't have a link at the moment.

Btw, shouldn't you first finish the Doom episode?
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Fernito

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 11:52:13 PM »
You could just download the latest stable version. RoR doesn't require anything beside Mapster32 but be aware that by using it you're forcing the player to run the game either in the classic or Polymer mode.


Didn't know that. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote
MickyC wrote a TROR guide but I don't have a link at the moment.

I see, but is that guide here in AMC or somewhere else? (my guess is somewhere else)

Quote
Btw, shouldn't you first finish the Doom episode?

Yeah, I should :P but you know, I have serious inspiration problems. But don't worry, the episode will be finished some time, and you'll be the official beta-tester  ^_^
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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 05:13:10 AM »
http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/True_Room_Over_Room_Mapping_Guide

There was a pdf tutorial too with screenshots, I think, but it's somewhere at Duke4.net
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Fernito

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 08:43:12 AM »
http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/True_Room_Over_Room_Mapping_Guide

There was a pdf tutorial too with screenshots, I think, but it's somewhere at Duke4.net

Gave a quick look to the link and seems to have all the info I need. Thanks! :)
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micky c

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 06:23:02 PM »
Yeah, TROR has definitely added a few years at least to the mapping scene, whether you use it for uber complicated funky stuff, or even just to overcome simple limitations.

I tried to make the wiki article a one stop shop with everything you need to know to learn and understand TROR, but just in case an explanation doesn't make sense (point it out to me if that's the case), the creator of TROR; Helixhorned, wrote his own guide way back when the feature was introduced which could offer an alternate way of understanding: http://forums.duke4.net/topic/3911-true-room-over-room/
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Fernito

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 08:29:30 PM »
Yeah, TROR has definitely added a few years at least to the mapping scene, whether you use it for uber complicated funky stuff, or even just to overcome simple limitations.

I tried to make the wiki article a one stop shop with everything you need to know to learn and understand TROR, but just in case an explanation doesn't make sense (point it out to me if that's the case), the creator of TROR; Helixhorned, wrote his own guide way back when the feature was introduced which could offer an alternate way of understanding: http://forums.duke4.net/topic/3911-true-room-over-room/

Thanks Micky.

It won't be until the weekend that I'll be able to play with this though. I'll let you know if I find some "bug" in your guide hehe :P
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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2012, 09:56:29 PM »
I too have been testing the waters after going years without mapping.
Not that I ever released anything worthwhile, but mapping was always a great way for me to relax in the evening if you can believe that.

I've been intrigued by all these new features, but since I've only started checking Duke forums again recently, I don't have the big picture of how this new stuff all ties together.

In that regard, just a simple list of links to all the stuff that's required to get started would help me out a great deal. Back in the days I knew all the SE tags, sector tags, C-9 timing intervals by rote but now I doubt I'd even remember how to make a simple Doom-door. Oh well, if nothing else it'll be fun to try it all out again.  ^_^
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micky c

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 08:13:21 AM »
Depending on when you left, you're in for a wild ride!  ^_^

Here's everything you need to know to catch up on the last few years of Duke mapping (I'll assume you don't know very much and cover everything, so sorry if I state a few things which might seem obvious) :wacko:

Mapping Guides
This is always the no. 1 guide both for beginners and those who need brushing up. I still refer to it pretty regularly myself: http://infosuite.duke4.net/
Here's a speed mapping guide I wrote, with lots of little tips and tricks (also detailing some of the lesser-known features of eduke32) to make mapping a lot easier and faster: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vII1ILXvNjCYhdo-As7ndoKUbeXnHW8elS4ieZWWWTw/edit

Now there are 2 big things since about 2009. One is a brand new renderer, Polymer, which can make the game look very cool and modern, and True Room Over Room (TROR) which basically allows you to create 3D levels.

Polymer
The Polymer renderer has dynamic coloured lighting effects with real-time shadows (along with other advanced texture stuff)! If you were never any good at or didn't like doing shading by hand, this makes your job much easier. It also renders everything, (no HOM) and you can do some very cool SOS and not get any glitches. The problem is that it requires a fairly new computer and tends to run slow on a lot of older machines. Still, some mappers have managed to pull off some very well lit scenes and still have a high framerate.

Here's a video showing the power of Polymer with the HRP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v7RyxbDdi0
But the lights also look good with classic textures. Check out 'Of Pigs and Men' by Sebastian (Rusty Nails) http://msdn.duke4.net/hotpigsmen.php
In fact, an entire TC, WGRealms 2, is combining 8 bit art and polymer lights.
Images:
http://www.moddb.com/games/wgrealms-2/images/that-danmed-church#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/games/wgrealms-2/images/danm-new-level3#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/games/wgrealms-2/images/danm-new-level2#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/games/wgrealms-2/images/still-very-much-alive2#imagebox

To learn how to use the lights, look at the new SEs 49 and 50 on this page: http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/Sector_Effector_Reference_Guide
To see the lights in mapster, make sure you're running in 32 bit mode, open up the console with ` and type "setrendermode 4" without quotation marks. Then press 'x to toggle the lights.

TROR
The other mind blowing feature, TROR, works in both classic and Polymer (but not the old openGL renderer Polymost). It works flawlessly in polymer (but has the framerate issues) and works quite well in classic, as long as you're aware of how to get around some limitations.

If you're aware of regular ROR where one room is shown as being on top of another, this is different because in the editor, the rooms are physically on top of eachother in their correct positions, which makes things easier to edit and visualize.
This guide is the place to go for that: http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/True_Room_Over_Room_Mapping_Guide
Make sure you read the TROR editing modes section at the top, as that's where most people get tripped up. For some good example maps, Check out Parkade (it was designed only for polymer, but it's "playable" in classic with glitches): http://www.scent-88.com/reviews/P/parkade/parkade.php It'll blow you away if you're used to the old limits.
Retaliation is also a good short example map: http://www.scent-88.com/reviews/R/retaliation/retaliation.php

Smart Tagging
There's also a handy little feature called smart tagging, which lets you tag things with words instead of numbers. This is better because words are easier to remember than numbers, and it's much, much easier to keep track of which tags you use. (Technically numbers are still used for the tags, but they're represented by words, in an external file called yourmap.maptags which is generated when you save.)

eduke32
A new eduke32 (and mapster32, which is what you'll use for mapping) comes out every few days, so always make sure you have the latest one for extra stability and occasionally new little features: http://dukeworld.duke4.net/eduke32/synthesis/

Edited for slightly better formatting.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 08:19:18 AM by micky c »
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Gambini

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 09:02:25 AM »
Not to burst your balloon Micky but Polymer runs slow in more than just old computers. And it doesn´t replace sector shading, not at all. Also TROR doesn´t work in Polymost, which is the most used engine and its functional capability in software is quite limited. So TROR = Polymer and Polymer = Only for people with ultra high end computers and only Nvidia video cards.
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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 09:27:57 AM »
I said that TROR doesn't work in polymost. About the performance in polymer, he can see for himself just how slow it is when he tries it out.

As for TROR in the classic renderer, just wait until you see the map I'm currently working on for the AMC TC!  :wub:
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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 09:49:12 AM »
Even if it runs in his computer. The chances of his map running in the audience´s average computer are unlikely. And I know there is a bunch of cool things that can be done with TROR and software but again, the trickery comes from incompatibilty between renderers. Just wanted to warn them before they put all their tokens on the double 0, because once the roulette is spinning, you can´t back down.
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Fernito

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2012, 08:58:29 PM »
Also TROR doesn´t work in Polymost, which is the most used engine...

But come on Gambini, aren't you the one which makes maps that are meant to be played in software mode? :P
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Gambini

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2012, 05:19:35 AM »
Yes but one of the points is: Anybody wanting to play my hypotetical TROR map, and not wanting to use software, would be obliged to use Polymer.

Anyway yes TROR for software is cooler than exclusively Polymer Tror.
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micky c

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Re: Wanting to map again
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2012, 08:57:55 AM »
Anyway yes TROR for software is cooler than exclusively Polymer Tror.

What do you mean?
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